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Never use 'to' after (Request/Recommend/Insist/Suggest/Dare/Demand)?

No-Ground-3824
I am starting to notice a trend where native speakers avoid using 'verb+someone+to'' structure after certain verbs. Specifically, I hear 'I suggest (that) you do it' instead of 'I suggest you to do it'. 'I recommended (that) he go' instead of 'I recommended him to go'. 'I demand (that) he leave' instead of 'I demand him to leave'. 'How dare he speak to me like that' 'I request (that) you disappear' instead of 'I request you to disappear'. So always use 'that + he/she/they/it + base form of verb' after these verbs? Am I on the right track?

19 comments

j--__•
you are correct that none of these accept "to".
BubbhaJebus•
It's not a new trend. They're avoiding "to" because they're using proper grammar. (Exception: dare)
Matsunosuperfan•
You got it; nice pattern recognition. With the exception of "dare," these are all **performative verbs** \- they enact their own action (by saying "I recommend," you are recommending). So it doesn't make sense to say "I suggest you," because "you" is not what you are suggesting. This is where the "that" phrase comes in.
Umbra_175•
You're on the right track; however, never unnecessarily use "that." It's redundant because it acknowledges a relationship which is already there. It's just like using "thereby." "I did this, thereby causing that" is redundant. It should be "I did this, causing that."
n00bdragon•
["Dare to"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhwddNQSWQ&pp=ygURZGFyZSB0byBiZSBzdHVwaWQ%3D) is perfectly acceptable, when used in a certain fashion.
ThirdSunRising•
Dare has another use case. I dare you to tell me I’m wrong.
macoafi•
If you’ve ever been told that English lacks the subjunctive (I know some friends of mine in Argentina and Spain were taught that), congrats, you found it.
JenniferJuniper6•
That’s a subjunctive. It’s not incorrect and it’s not new. English has a pretty weak subjunctive mood, but it does have one.
lithomangcc•
Those verbs require a bare infinitive following them. Search Subjective Mood.
zeptozetta2212•
A lot of these feel like cases of the present subjunctive, no?
Majestic-Finger3131•
Glad someone finally noticed.
zsjpxah•
Yes, but some cases where it's okay I think of are "Ask them to..." "Tell them to..." "Command them to..." "Order them to..." "Want them to..." "Need them to" "Cause them to..." "Get them to..." "Force them to..." And another similar construction to your examples is "For something to", like "I'd love for you to learn it." "I'd hate for you to fall" "It would be nice for you to go see them."
AdCertain5057•
I command you to consider this sentence. (Though you may be right that it's a rule that generally holds true.)
notacanuckskibum•
I highly recommend the new restaurant to you
TopHatGirlInATuxedo•
It's because these verbs trigger the subjunctive mood. It's really weak in English, since the verb form it induces is usually shared with the rest, but it does exist. Also, what you seem to be noticing is the dropped "that", which means you need a second subject for the clause afterward rather than an object.
Agreeable-Fee6850•
You are on the right track. You have entered the world of verbal complementation. The second verb (ie ‘do’ in “I suggest you do the ironing”) is the complement of the first verb ‘suggest’. There are a number of patterns of complements that a verb can have. Native speakers instinctively know which pattern to use, but as a learner, the best place to start is the big 3: - to + infinitive - [verb + ing] - infinitive without to. However, there is an alternative grammatical structure - a ‘that’ clause. This type of clause can generally be used with verbs instead of one of the formal patterns of complements. So, native speakers are kind of ‘avoiding’ the more formal grammar of complementation when they use this grammatical structure. ‘That’ clauses are easier to construct: that + subject + verb + object. So, as a learner, it makes sense to use them. The problem for learners is that native speakers usually don’t say / write the ‘that’. This makes it difficult to understand when a native speaker is using a ‘that’ clause, or is using a different pattern of verbal complementation, or is using a totally different type of grammar (for example a verb in subjunctive or imperative mood.)
winner44444•
Your observation is only partially correct. Here are some specific points: 1. The "dare that" structure is uncommon. Instead, "dare" is usually used in the form "dare + object + to verb" (e.g., "I dare you to jump off the cliff"). 2. Verbs like **request**, **recommend**, **insist**, **suggest**, and **demand** are typically followed by the base form of the verb because they are used in the subjunctive mood (**subjunctive present** specifically), where the word “that” is often omitted. Subjunctive present  is required when expressing demands, necessity, or requests. 3. Many English verbs can be used in both the subjunctive and indicative moods. For example: * **Indicative mood** (simple request): "I ask you to leave." * **Subjunctive mood** (stronger command): "I ask that you leave." * **Indicative mood** (simple advice): "I advise her to leave early." * **Subjunctive mood** (stronger command): "I advise that she leave early." 4. Note that in British English, **"should"** is often used to indicate the subjunctive mood. * **American English**: "I insist that she be at home." * **British English**: "I insist that she should be at home."
Tetracheilostoma•
"dare [someone] to" is fine, but other than that i'd say you're right
villi_•
You're on the right track, but there are some exceptions. "How dare you (do something)?" is a common saying, but outside of that nobody ever says "I dare (that) you (do something)". It's always "I dare you to (do something)". "Ask" is a weird one. In present tense, you could say "I ask that you do this", but it sounds very formal (in casual speech it'd be more like "can you do this?"). But you can never say "I ask you to do this", it just sounds weird. However, you *do* say it in past or future tense: e.g. "I asked him to do the dishes" or "I'm gonna ask him to to the dishes"